"To testify the gospel of the grace of God." Acts 20:24
**PUBLISHED AS A MISSION PROJECT OF PILGRIMS HOPE BAPTIST CHURCH**
BRO. JOE WILSON WRITES AGAIN
Dear Brother Camp,
You have complained repeatedly about my not quoting Scripture. I now quote two.
"And I say unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Matt.16:16). "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen" (Matt. 28:18-20). Please do not accuse me again of not giving Scripture. I consider these all the Scripture needed for the subject we are supposed to be discussing.
I have learned from you in this brief discussion that all one needs to do to be a professional debater is: 1. Ask many irrelevant, immaterial, often absurd questions. 2. Quote from many sources. 3. Dodge the real issue under discussion as much as possible. 4. To cloud the real issue by introducing many other issues. 5. To not give plain, simple, easily understood answers to questions really pertaining to the issue being discussed. 6. To give a clouded answer and refuse to make it clear. I have decided that I do not want to be a professional debater.
The question we were supposed to be discussing was clearly stated, "Do you believe that, in order for a church to be a true church, it has to be started (authority of "mother" church) by another true church? What a simple question. How easy it would have been for you to answer it. A simple "yes" or "no" with a brief explanation would have sufficed.
But not for you, oh, no; you had to take off on a barrage of irrelevant and foolish questions about the word "mother." And then into a multitude of pages on the subject. You knew what I meant by "mother." You knew that all I meant was one church starting another church. With all the pages of writing, you have not yet clearly answered my question. You have made two statements that might be considered as such. Let us look at them.
Near the end of your first article on this, you said, "If you (me) had written, "Do you believe that, in order for a church to be a true church, it has to be started by another true church?" and left it at that, I (you) could have given an emphatic "yes" as my answer. Well the word "mother" did not keep you from giving such an answer.
I was shocked. Wayne Camp believes in church authority in starting churches. I had read after him much. I had never even imagined that he believed such. In fact, it seemed very clear to me that he believed no such thing. Now, he has said it. I am so glad. But, wait a minute. Has he really said this? What does he mean by church authority?
Well, he tells us that when a church sends out a missionary she gives him the authority to preach, make disciples, baptize them, and organize them into churches. That is all he tells us. He says nothing as to churches being organized under any other conditions than by a missionary being sent forth with church authority.
Brother Camp, when I pointed out that I had you cornered here, you just said I did not quote a Scripture; and therefore, could not have you cornered. I pointed out that if you believed a church had to be started by another church, that church would have had to be organized by another church (I speak of true churches), and so on back to Christ. This would necessitate link-chain succession which you do not believe. You cannot have church authority in starting a church without also having link chain succession. You just ignored this. You did not even attempt to defend yourself here.
Now, you come up with a totally contradictory statement which, I believe sets forth your real position on starting a church - your May paper, page 8, first paragraph beginning on page. You say, "Yes, Bro. Joe, I concur with these men (you had just quoted several men). I believe a group of Scripturally baptized believers can constitute themselves into a Scriptural Baptist church." You are cornered again. You may believe this. I think it gives your real position. But you cannot believe this and believe a church must be started by the authority of another church. You are cornered again.
Now, you may invent some misusage of language and try to prove that you do believe that a group Scripturally baptized believers can constitute themselves into a church, and that you believe a church must be started by the authority of another church - you may attempt this - but no thinking person will believe one can believe both of these.
Where is there any church authority involved in Scripturally baptized believers constituting themselves into a church? You do not even have your church authorized missionary here. Where is there any church authority here? There is none. Surely, you will not be so foolish as to tell us that in baptism a church gives the authority to start other churches or will you? Finally, you have answered my question. You do not believe that a true church has to be started by the authority of another true church. This is what I wanted. I wanted people to know that Wayne Camp does not believe in church authority in starting true churches. Of course, I would prefer that you did, but I wanted the truth to come out.
Brother Camp, you cannot believe in church authority in starting churches and deny link chain succession. You cannot believe in church authority in starting churches and believe a group of Scripturally baptized believers can constitute themselves into a Scriptural Baptist church. Will you face these things? Will you explain clearly how they could go together? When you cannot do this, will you set forth plainly which you believe. For now, we will accept that you believe a group of Scripturally baptized believers can constitute themselves into a Scriptural Baptist church.
A few words concerning the Scriptures I quoted at the beginning of this letter. Matthew 16:18 teaches church perpetuity. Matthew 28:18-20 teaches church authority in properly doing the Lord's work. This surely includes starting churches. The two together certainly show that Scriptural church perpetuity involves link-chain succession.
Addenda to last letter.
Brother Camp, if some members of your church would become disgruntled with something about your preaching or about the church, and went out and organized or constituted themselves into a church; would you recognize them as constituting a true church? Surely you would, but I would like for you to answer this question.
Return to Index Page for Past Issues of The Grace Proclamator and Promulgator
Return to CENTRAL BAPTIST CHURCH HOME PAGE
Last updated on Friday, March 04, 2011